April 2025
Here are some key takeaways from their conversation:
Watch previous episodes here:
Ep. 132 Market Volatility & How We Protect Your Portfolio
Ep. 131 5 Must-Know Travel Tips for Your Next Vacation
Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the financial commute. Kevin and I read a book. We read a lot of things in our industry, and it kind of helped give us knowledge and the ability to give great advice. But we read a book recently that kind of challenges the norms of how most people think about money and money as a tool.
So the book is called Die with Zero. Yeah. And it's amazing. It was written by Bill Perkins. I think the biggest takeaway for me was it really challenged me and kind of poked at me was the phrase in the book that said, most people die with too much money they over save. And like, that just wasn't a concept that I was willing to let challenge me.
But it sort of sparked my interest about the different takeaways in the book. I mean, what were your thoughts? Yeah.
Well, first, when you asked me to read the book, I was I was like, this is how I live my life already. I was like, I, I sometimes I have to challenge myself of me saving enough, or am I saving in the ways that I should. And so just my initial thought right away was, I'm excited to read this book.
It almost reinforced a lot of the way that I do try to live my life, the way that my wife and I, the decisions that we make. So initially it was kind of like, oh, this will be fun to, to have this discussion with you. But along the way, it's not just only spend on experiences. The book also challenges you to say, you know, don't just spend your money for no reason.
Like, what is the value of all of these decisions that you're making? And so I think even for me, someone who does enjoy spending on experiences and the things that I like and enjoy, it got me thinking about, like, what do I actually value by making those choices? So I get both sides.
I mean, that was one of the fascinating topics from the book was you've got you've got energy, you've got health, and you have resources, right? Money. And there are different stages in your life where you're more likely to do a certain experience because of the age and health that you're in. You know, younger versus later. One of the concepts was around backpacking in Europe and staying in hostels.
Yeah. You're only going to do that in your 20s because the first time you stay at a Marriott, you're never going to go stay at a hostel. You're done. And I thought it was so interesting because I never backpacked in Europe and stayed in hostels. And so here at 45, I'm probably never, ever going to which is fine.
But it really talked about prioritizing your life in the experiences that you want to have during your life in the different buckets, you know, in your 30s, in your 40s, in your 50s, in your 60s. Because the reality is that you're probably going to get a lot more enjoyment skiing the Matterhorn in your 40s than in your 70s, when you're, you know, saved enough to retire and can now take all these trips.
Exactly. Yeah, I loved that whole concept. So when you're younger, you typically have more time, you have your health, but you don't have the money. And then the reverse, right? All of a sudden you get older, you now have the money, but you typically have less time and your health unfortunately deteriorates. Even if you're a healthy 50 year old, you're still not the same way you were when you were 20, or could be when you were 20.
And so to your point, what is the value of that experience at each stage of life? I like that you bring up skiing because I love to ski, and we just had an experience just not too long ago where my kids weren't with us. I'm like, I'm going to have a day where I'm going to 30,000ft. I'm going to just go up and down this mountain.
Couldn't do it like I had all the time in the world, and I couldn't experience skiing the way that I did when I was younger. And so it really got me thinking about, okay, I can't go back in time, but now I'm 41 years old. What do I want to experience in my 40s? That won't be the same or as good when I'm in my 50s and 60s.
But then on the flip side, there are going to be things that are going to be way better to experience when you're in your 50s and 60s. So it's it's kind of valuing and understanding what you get out of it. Again, like in your 20s, backpacking Europe, you will never get that experience of staying in a hostel, which is awesome.
But now you can stay in that area. So it's like by being able to save money and spend more money, it also changes that trip and gives you maybe better experiences. So kind of figuring out how much do you save and when to take that experience is really important.
Yeah. Look, I don't want people to go into credit card debt trying to maximize experiences and, you know, kind of get themselves into financial trouble. But we have a lot of clients that have done very, very well for themselves. Some of them came from, you know, modest beginnings and through hard work and saving and making good decisions, they've they've amassed a sum of money that their kids are likely to inherit.
And I joke with them sometimes if you don't five first class your kids. Well, yeah. So you should enjoy it and kind of challenge them to to get the most life out of their wealth today. But some of them sort of have that mentality. Well, nobody helped me and I had to struggle. And so I want to teach those values to my kids.
But the book sort of says, oh, that's that's a waste of resources to wait until your 90s to then pass along this money to your kids and or to those organizations that are important to you. Because if they were to have received that money a little bit sooner, they might have, you know, maximize their life or their enjoyment, because, again, you get to live once.
And so we ought to be able to enjoy our lives. So it was just it was an interesting concept.
You know, we have young kids. And like in my heart of hearts, I just want to wrap them in bubble wrap. You never want them to struggle, right? You just care so much about them. But as dads, we know that one of the best things we can do is let them struggle. So it is a fine balance if if our kids have shown a level of maturity as they are growing up and responsibility and they're working hard, it's, you know, I had parents who were very fortunate like, hey, if you're doing well in sports and you're getting good grades in school, you don't have to get a job in high school.
But if you're just goofing around and your grades start slipping, you're getting a job right away. So it's that concept of if you have it and you can help them out and they're like deserving of it in some way. They've earned the right for you to give them that support. If they do, if you do that at a younger age, it's better.
I know you and I were just sharing, like most people inherit assets from their parents in their 50s and they've already gone through the really hard times of raising kids, starting businesses and struggling financially. So there is that grit that's developed. But if you can give your kids or you can give a charity money now because they have a need now, even though it's less than that might be in the future, there could be a lot more value in that.
So I keep going back to that value concept of where does it make the most impact? And we also talk to our clients a lot about being able to experience it. So yes, you might leave a legacy and an impact once you've passed on, but for some people, the value of watching their kids thrive or helping their grandkids through college or watching that charity, you know, out of building or support more people in need, like the point of having money is to utilize it and to get the good and the joy and the love out of it.
And so to see it while you're still alive. That's where the concept of dying was zero. It's not just spend it on everything that you want, but it's spending it on experiences and on those that you love. Whether it be giving to your kids an inheritance, giving to charity and those other areas.
You and I had very similar upbringings with regards to get good grades, participate in sports. You don't have to have a job. I was sort of reminiscing about my childhood there, but, you know, some clients that that have done very, very well for themselves, they want their kids to be good stewards of money, and they're worried that, you know, if they were just given this large nest egg and if something were to happen to them that they're not going to make good decisions with it.
And one of the things that I liked about the book is it sort of challenges that status quo of, okay, give let your kids have access to the money. A third at 35, a third at 40, a third at 45, which are these arbitrary ages? Why not? Why not? Maybe give them a small amount today while they're in their 20s or 30s, and see the decisions that they actually make with the money, because that may surprise you in a positive way about how they might make different decisions than what you assume, as opposed to trying to, have some arbitrary ages in there.
I thought that that was interesting, too.
Yeah. That's great. I would have failed my parents that he gave me money and I would have it would've been gone. But I would have had some really good memories. And and on that point, they talked about kind of like the dividends are that you get off of spending money on experiences. You know, I did get to backpack through Europe, and I can't tell you when someone mentions a country or when I'm watching TV in a sport sporting team comes from a certain city, I go back to the time that I was there with my buddies sleeping on park benches.
Sometimes if we had the choice, we could either pay for a hostel or get more beer right? And so we oftentimes made the wrong choice. But the memories are so real and still so vivid in my mind. And so when you think about the money that we spent, had I invested that I would have more money today, but I wouldn't have the moments that I relive and the joy and the smile that it puts on my face and my.
One of my best friends was texting me the other day, an inside joke from that trip, which was over 20 something years ago. And so the dividends that we get from experiences, it's not just spend it and it's gone. You actually hold on to those memories forever, and you talk about them for a lifetime. And so that's where, you know, money well spent can, can create joy for, for a long period of time.
And that concept in the book was so amazing to me because for a long time, the last ten, 11 years, I've been seeing more news articles and headlines about this whole fire movement financial independence, retire early, younger people sacrificing on experiences and things today to save as much money as fast as possible. So that way they can retire in their 40s.
Or even potentially earlier. And I thought it was just sort of so interesting because the book challenges that sort of mindset. It's saying, look, be financially responsible, save, but also think about the time that you're losing and the experiences that you might not have been able to enjoy because of those decisions. And so for people with a scarcity mindset around money, that really don't like to spend, they get nervous or anxious.
They don't take that trip with their family. They maybe don't, help their kids with, you know, college savings or they or downpayment on a home for people with a scarcity mindset or people that are looking at, you know, the next part of their life and saying, okay, what experiences do I want to have and how do I prioritize those to where I'm sort of maximizing those experiences during the different ages that I'm going to see?
I think this book really helps them.
Think the easy thing to jump into is you save all that money, you miss out on all those experiences. We don't know how long we're going to live. So the easy thing to jump to is, well, what if you die right away? But beyond that, you look back. It's kind of a tough concept to think of, but it talked about how you just there's different parts of your life that die throughout your whole life.
So yes, we all pass away once, but we have different parts that die. And having kids, like I always think about, when's the last time I'm going to actually carry my children like children like it's you don't carry them forever. Or like when they're going to say, hey, can you lay in bed with me and read a book?
Those parts are going to die along the way, and you're never going to look back at your life and be like, man, I wish I had spent more time at the office and less time coaching my kids. You're never going to say, you know what? I shouldn't have gone to my buddy's bachelor party or gone to the wedding or the funeral.
I should, you know, I should have been more present at work. So you have to work. You have to make money. But there are moments in time. There are experiences that you only get one shot at. And so when I go to that whole fire mindset, like, what are you sacrificing that you're never going to get back? I think you're giving up too much for an unknown in the future.
Yes, you retire early, but then what you probably sacrifice friends, family experiences and again, you'll never get those back. So I, I live for today. I also, you know, hopefully I'll have enough in the future as well. So it's it's that current me future me balance. But I love experiences and I love spending time with people. So this book was just again reinforce what I what I love.
You do love that memory bank. And it's one of the things that I think I'm so drawn to. You is a friend and a partner because your life experiences, they just seem amazing. And so it's challenged me to to try to do more. I took the girls to the USA women's versus Brazil soccer game over the weekend.
It was fun and difficult, but I'm glad I did it and you know, you really only have that one time to be able to to have those experiences and I love it. It's one of the reasons why I walked away from golf. Every excuse I had to not do something was because I had to play in a tournament.
And so looking back, I'm grateful that I did that and now have a different life and can think about it a little bit differently. But yeah, it's just the book I really enjoyed. What's one of the biggest takeaways that you would recommend for any client wanting to read this book, and why they should do it?
Yeah, I think it goes back to the comment you made at the very beginning where most people die with way more dollars in their bank account than they ever would need, and the book really talks about all of those, all the money in your account or the a wasted opportunity or you missed that. You missed the possibility to get an experience, help somebody do things that really you care about.
And for all of us, that's different. And so I think just the mindset of, okay, I'm saving this money. I'm hoarding all of these nuts like a squirrel. For what? Like, what am I getting in the end versus what I can have today? And the decision will be different for everybody. But I really want people to think, like we're making to not spend something, to not go on an experience like you're making a decision.
What is the value? Be intentional about the way that we think about our money. Spend our money because the reason you make it is to enjoy it or use it for good.
It's so much fun to help one of those clients take that family vacation and then hear back from them about how much fun it was, and how they can't wait to do it again. I know it's hard. I know that we all have a different reaction to spending money. And some people are scared and some people do it a little bit too much.
But at the end of the day, you're going to look back on your life and appreciate the experiences that you had a lot more than maybe the dollar that's in your account.
My favorite email is thank you for encouraging me to spend our money, right? Like you, they saved their money their whole lives and then they need permission or they need encouragement or guidance to spend it. The most recent one with the client as they wanted to build a whole new backyard experience. And then, well, maybe we should wait a couple of years.
I'm like, your kids are going to be out of the house at some point. Like, you can have this nice, beautiful backyard for the two of you to sit in it and maybe have some friends over. But like every day that you don't have it, your kids are missing out. So it's just if you're thinking about something that you know is going to add value in your life, consider doing it today or in the near future.
We don't know what the future is going to hold for us.
Yeah. Kevin, thank you so much for talking about that book. That was zero. I know it's just a challenging concept for some people to take on, but, I would say that besides the whole idea of give it all away, you know, before you pass away, it was just interesting how it can challenge the way that you feel about your life and the experiences and what you want going forward.
And so I recommend it to to everybody.
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Disclosures: Information presented herein is for discussion and illustrative purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers are as of the date of the recording and are subject to change. These views are not intended as a recommendation to buy or sell any securities, and should not be relied on as financial, tax or legal advice. You should consult with your attorney, finance professional or accountant before implementing any transactions and/or strategies concerning your finances
