February 2025
How does the way we perceive wealth and success impact our sense of worth? Is it possible to reverse unhealthy money habits and thought patterns? In this episode live from Morton Wealth’s 2024 Investor Symposium, Modearn™ Advisors Patrice Bening, Jenn Caruso and Brittany Yudkowsky explore the complex emotions that make up your “money mindset,” and the power your attitude toward money has on your future. Here are some key takeaways from their conversation:
Watch previous episodes:
Estate and Tax Laws Might Change Next Year: What You Should Know
The Financial Side of Parenthood: IVF, Birth and Beyond
My name is Brittany, and I'm one of our financial planning advisors and our education and learning manager. Joining me today are wealth advisors, Patrice and Jen. We are very excited to talk to you today. We'll delve into what a money mindset is. We're going to talk about your feelings about money how those impact the decisions that you make and whether you move towards your goals or away from them. That's really what we're going to focus on today. We're going to talk about that a little bit in the beginning and then we're going to have a breakout where you can talk amongst yourselves, and share as much as you like about how you relate to money and how that shows up in your life and even your relationships, as well.
And then we're going to come back together, and I'm going to talk to Patrice and Jen about their money mindsets and how that shows up in their lives, in the lives of their clients, and how they focus to make sure their mindset is moving them towards their goals rather than away from them.
Now at the beginning of these sessions, usually people ask you to put your phones away. We're going to ask you to keep your phones out. We're going to start with, a question that we want to ask all of you. So, again, this is this is the hardest part of today. So go to mentee.com, and once you're there, it'll ask you for a code to join the meeting.
That code is 37139070. So again I'll give you a few minutes if you haven't logged in yet. And then again, the code is 37139070. So now we're going to bring up what you'll see when you bring that up, you think about the words money and wealth. What other words come to mind for you? This is anonymous. No wrong answers. So please feel free to put whatever you want in there. So I'll give you a few minutes to do that. Perfect. So we are going to have this on the screen. So while we're bringing that up I mean I want to share a few of my words. It's freedom I think. And also a little bit of anxiety, too when you're thinking about that. And like that may make sense to some of you. It may not make sense to others of you. But we're going to delve into why those are some of the words around money and wealth and all of those things. So anyone again, while we're waiting for that to come up, does anyone feel comfortable sharing any of their words and safe space?
You can just shout it out. Yeah. Shout freedom. Okay. Great independence. I love that clarity. Freedom. Security. Yes. Gratitude. I love that. Blessing. Yeah. Great. Perfect. Peace of mind. I love that philanthropy. Philanthropy. I like that too. These are great. Thank you so much for participating and even shouting it out. Here. Where? Yes, we are going to talk about feelings today. I didn't preface that. So again, safe space. Really? We're all going to be vulnerable together. Here. So let's move on to what we've talked about some of those feelings around money. So, Patrice, Jen, and I have talked about what are some really some of those categories that come up around money that really a lot of feelings coalesce around. Jen is going to start us off with, probably one the most popular ones. The shame guilt spiral.
Shame and guilt. Lovely. You know, I think we all can identify with shame and guilt. I think by nature, we're very hard on ourselves, you know, just by nature. So I think we've all got caught up in this, depending on where we're at in our life. You know, for me, I remember, when I was going through my divorce many, many years ago. You know, any time you have a financial setback, you tend to put extra pressure on yourself, because I can't get old. And, you know, why should I done this? Or maybe I should have done that, or, You know, not made this move or not. Maybe I should've took that position instead or whatever it is. But we all have some sort of, some sort of setback, and. Exactly. And so, when I went through my divorce, I remember feeling like, oh, my gosh, this is a major financial setback because I have all this financial guilt on myself. And I again, it's common to do you know, in addition to my kids at the time, they were in high school and middle school. And so, you know, you've done this for college planning. You can identify. Right. But then you know, your resources need to go other places. So I had to utilize, parent loans and student loans. And, you know, those are wonderful resources. I'm so thankful for them. But still, you put this guilt on yourself. But, you know, I want to encourage you that when you do feel that way, you know, you need to look at it and say. Okay. Is it justified? Is that feeling justified? And can I use it for my benefit? You know, I was able to use that experience as a catalyst to be a super saver, be more diligent about financial planning. And just really a course correction, if you will. And just get back on track.
I love that. I love it. Have an understanding of where that shame and guilt is coming from, because research shows actually we're not actually wired. We're only 17% of us are wired to be savers. So we feel bad and guilty about something that actually, biologically, we're not really wired for as well. So it's really examining the awareness and taking the shame out of feeling shame. And also to so beyond beyond shame. And I think everyone will recognize this one too. Decision paralysis. So I don't think I'm the only one here where I spend two hours looking at Netflix, deciding what to watch, rather than watching anything. Too many choices. And I go down the rabbit hole researching all of them for one of them, a Netflix show. But really with financial decisions, too. There are so many choices, but really not much knowledge to differentiate between those choices, to figure out what decision will take you towards your goals or what will take you away. So of course we have this paralysis, so we make no decision, which is still a decision. And we don't do anything because we're caught in that paralysis. So being in that paralysis on top of that we have outside influences. So Patrice, because I talk about, comparison.
Favorite topic for sure. We live in 2024 and I think we, we are attacked and bombarded by information. I think social media is an absolute threat to our identity because we lose track of who we are as people, and we start measuring and comparing ourselves to this alter reality that we we think we perceive in others. So it's almost like, you know, oh, Brittany, she went to Costa Rica. Oh, how did she get to Costa Rica? Maybe I should invest more aggressively so I can go to Costa Rica. What's interesting, Schwab did this survey in 2019, and, it's a little bit dated, but a 35% of all Americans overspend so that they can impress their friends. A third of Americans overspend so they can impress their friends. And what's interesting is that wealth, it should not be something that you spend. You should not look at that. As far as, the thing to even consider. The thing about comparison is that it pulls this pulls us in into rabbit holes and things that we tend to lose sight of what's important to us. So that's why I like what we do in the conversations that we have here are really about not what your friends should do. It's not what your, you know, coworkers should do or your neighbor should do, but it's what's important to you. And kind of going back to your values, understanding that things that you are supposed to do have to matter for you because it's going to impact your financial plan overall.
It's that lens on values which were to talk about later. That really helps and deal with these feelings because we have these feelings that are up here. A lot of the feelings that you have all shared with us. So, feelings are something that we all feel. We're all human beings. It's natural to bring your feelings to everything that we do, especially finance, in an arena where we don't talk about it as much, we don't really delve into what's behind the logic when it comes to finances. So we've talked a lot about the emotions that we do feel. So why do we feel this way? Are there reasons, ones that we can control or ones that we can understand better? So part of that is where money when our money habits really set. There's a University of Cambridge study that by the age of seven, children's money habits are already set, which is.
That's so early, at that point. But who are children coming into contact with by the age of seven? It's their parents or grandparents. Old family and even friends of family. So it's previous generations too, who also have that impact and really can format that money habit behavior up to age seven. So, okay, can we do anything beyond just our childhood and is it just set at that point? Well, once you get beyond your childhood there, your experiences that you have with money most often potentially with debt, as you start to earn your own income and you're like, oh, great, a credit card. I have so much money to spend because I have a large credit limit without potentially realizing the consequences. And maybe that affects how you feel about debt now. So it's those those experiences that start to formulate along the way as you get older. And then Patrice hit on this too. Movies, television, social media. I don't know if any of you seen on YouTube those videos where they compare, someone's salary to their actually place that they live and how unrealistic that is. I'm going to, cite a popular example, Carrie Bradshaw. Sex in the city. She writes one column a week, and she can live in an Upper West Side brownstone and afford lots of designer shoes and clothing. So obviously we know that example. Like, that's ridiculous. But in some way we're absorbing that. We're we're being shown that this is a lifestyle that we should aspire to without actually having any of the relevant income to support that lifestyle. So that's where as what we're seeing all the time. And then I get to Patricia's point, social media. Anyone like a lot of us potentially are on there. But if anyone has kids and grandkids, I don't think I need to tell you how toxic social media can be and how it really propagates these lifestyles that just aren't achievable, because on social media, you can curated, you can create a few instances in time and make that seem as if that's your life.
And these are really, really toxic if you don't have the context or understanding, even if you do that, these are not real life. It's it's hard when you're bombarded by that. So there are reasons that we feel the way that we do. This is not just, things that we're making up either. So. Okay. Feelings. Why we feel the way that we do about them.
Let's actually talk about money mindsets. So there's research on this topic. I didn't make this up, about the different categories of money scripts. Now, if you're like me and you see categories, you're excited to neatly slot yourself into one of these categories. That's maybe my left brain talking. But before we go into these and you pick which one you want to be, I really just want to kind of say three things. Number one, you might actually identify with more than one of these. And that's normal for complicated human beings. These are categories. These are things that start building awareness of how we think about money. This is not this is what you are and this is what you will always be. Because point number two, over time this could change. You might recognize one of these from earlier in your life. And you start earning income. You start building that career and then you're in a different point of your life. Now that's not the priority. You're focusing on different things. So again, identifying with more than one, identifying with one now versus one early in your life. And then my third point, which I think is the most important point, and references back before none of these categories, none of them are good or bad. So I'll say that again. None of them are good or bad. You might see in terms of the behaviors that we talk about, identify them as good or bad. But I really urge you to take the words good and bad and remove them from your vocabulary. When you're thinking about money, those create shame that those are about judgment. And as we've just seen already, we judge ourselves enough when it comes to money, and we have outside judgment as well that we're perceiving. So let's not think about it in those terms. This is about the beliefs and the behaviors that are moving your towards your goals, or the beliefs and behaviors that moving you away from your goals. That's really the focus here too. So don't worry, I will remind you, good and bad. We don't like those words when it comes to this. So now that I've cautioned you all on that and then now we can delve into the money scripts.
So the first one money status. So really, what is the thought process behind when you you think about money in this way it's your net worth equals your self-worth. This is about how you feel about yourself. And you deserve new things, because those things actually give you more sense of self and worth there. So how does that show up in terms of behavior? You prioritize the outward display of wealth because when you're outwardly displaying your wealth, you're showing other people. I'm a valuable person. That being the case, you might, take higher risks to make more money so that can you can increase your sense of self-worth, and you can have other people see that you are worth more in that sense. But again, this might seem like a bad one, but there are reasons for this. Why you might think about that. People from different socio economic backgrounds like this mattered. Like money actually did convey status in that community. But again, as you move through your life and your your economic situation, changes like that could change too. So again, and I'll say this repeatedly, this is about awareness. This isn't about this is bad. This is good. How do you approach money now? And potentially this will change as you move forward. So what's the outcome of that to overspending? You become financially dependent on, on others because you overspend. And you could be successful and wealthy. But again, the dark side of that is workaholic. You need to earn more money to increase your sense of self-worth. Not that. I mean, if people want to be a workaholic, your choice. But it's all about the motivation behind that, because you'll start to see as we go through the other money scripts, the outcomes can actually look pretty similar, but the thought process behind it is different, and which is really, really important as we not only start to think about our money mindset, but how others actually their money mindset too, because the outcome might look the same, let's say, is as one of your money mindsets, where they're coming to it from a very different place. So really, hopefully creating more understanding of, how other people in your life relate to money as well?
Brittany. Yes. So I'm going to buy the Maserati later. I'm okay. Yeah. That's,
So money focus. So pretty similar in some sense to money status, but this is more outward. So the key you believe money is freedom and the key to happiness. So we've talked about freedom before, but this is about what money will create meaning in your life versus money will tell other people how valuable I am. So thought process thought pattern a little different behavior. Here and pretty some are more spending, hoarding possessions. What I thought was interesting too. And we'll talk about this a little bit more later. You engage in compulsive spending on other people kind of thinking about this is a show of affection for other people. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not. But really, it's about the motivation. Is that really making you happy, or do you think that's going to create meeting and significance in your life? And some of these to these behaviors you might identify with a little bit or there's one behavior like, no, that's not me at all. Again, we're complicated human beings. This is about becoming more aware of what you do identify with and how you do approach money. Here. So again, outcome here. Again, increased risk of overspending, just like with money status. More material possessions because you're spending more and higher debt. Again, you're spending more money because money is going to create more happiness, create more meaning in your life.
So moving on to the third money avoidance. So this one is and I here's the B word again money is bad and you don't deserve money. So this is this is different than the other two where you are not it. It is not necessary reflection of your inner self. But it's more you want to almost protect yourself. You want to be a good person. This one I think has potentially the most judgment in it. So behavior pattern you ignore your bank statements because you want to avoid thinking about money. Therefore you also don't budget because that would require you to really think about your needs and how you're going to utilize money. And also interestingly too, because again, we talked about judgment in this one. Money. It's bad. You don't feel like you deserve a raise at work. Even if you actually do, you won't ask for that raise. So what's the outcome of that behavior again overspending. But we can start to see. While the outcome might be similar, the thought pattern is different. It's overspending because you want to give your money away. You don't want to have to deal with it. You don't deserve it. You want to get rid of it. So this again can lead to, giving money away. Not as much higher debt here, but lower income because you're not asking for those raises, missed payments because you just don't want to think about it. Giving your money away to other people so you can avoid having it. So very different. This one I think is different from the first two in terms of how you're approaching it. But outcome looks pretty similar.
So the last one, money, vigilance, this one breaks a little bit, from the other three. So money is private. This one is extra again, to spend money on yourself. This is not like the first. The previous one where it's like, I don't want. I don't deserve it. I don't want it. This is more like I can't spend it on myself because that's really extravagant. I need to save, save, save because I need to have enough money. But of course, how much is enough money? That's not really a question that can be answered based on dollars and cents. That's a values question here. So behavior pattern for that. Very frugal. We're also uncomfortable discussing money as well because again you don't think you have enough. You don't think you're doing the right things. You want to keep that close to the vest. But of course you're not getting help. And when when you do that, but less likely to spend on credit. So I think this one, more so than anything, the outcome these behaviors look like good money behaviors. But really what is the motivation behind that. Like you're making good financial decisions, but you have so much anxiety about having enough and saving money that you might not actually enjoy the product of all of your hard work. And because you're private about this too, you might actually reach out and get the help that you need in order to make those decisions in order to have that third party that really helps you see, you know, these are this is your mindset that's really directing you in this way. Is it really moving you towards your goals about spending more on things that matter to you? So that's that's the overview of all of our money scripts here. So I have a little bit of a summary as well. This is on your tables as well. I'd love for us to take some time and really think about what resonated with you in terms of these money mindsets.
How do you see this show up in your own lives and your relationships too? So we're going to walk around, but please take some time to discuss amongst yourselves.
There is a QR code on the page in front of you, so you if you scan it, they'll take you to a test to identify which one is your money script.
Okay, we're going to restart it in a minute. I love how engaged everyone is talking about their money scripts. So now, thank you all, for being vulnerable in your conversations at your table. Or even if you weren't, that's that. That's totally fine, too. Now, as promised, we're going to turn to, Patrice and Jen and kind of ask them, for both of you, what is your money mindset and how do you feel about that? Jen, let's start with you.
So it's interesting, I heard across the room talking to a few of you that, you know, if I fall into any of these. Quiz later. It's a long quiz, so, you know, have your coffee or dessert or whatever, but, I think it's 24 questions or so, but, you know, you will fall in one, probably two at least of these categories. I scored money vigilant. I knew I would score that. I did, you know that Cambridge study that talks about kind of form what where you are by the age of seven. I actually agree with that. I think our money story really defines our perception of money and our behavior. You know, so when I was younger, you know, I think scarcity or my perception of scarcity really made me vigilant. I wasn't super saver as a kid. My first job, I was 12, I wanted independence, and I wanted to save, save, save, save, save. And I didn't really spend, as an adult, you know, I got caught up. Depending on where you are in your life, I got caught up in, money avoidance, probably in my 20s, just because I felt like I didn't have enough. So I don't want to deal with the, But then I got back on track and got, you know, became vigilant again. So it just depends on where you're at. And like, you know, again, when I mentioned my divorce, then, you know, that catapults you into being that vigilant all over again, like, okay, I want to save, save, save. But, you know, the problem with being vigilant is maybe you don't enjoy life as much, right? Maybe you're not spending where you need to spend. So I would just caution you to, you know, be careful. Be aware of where you are. But, yeah, money, money vigilance is my core. But I've dabbled in a few others.
I really wanted to score money. Vigilant. I am money vigilant, I promise I am. That was my number two. When we were going through this exercise and the three of us took the. Took the quiz, and I was kind of upset because I said, no, I can't be money focused. Some of you know me in this room.
I am not I so again, Britney talked about this. There's no good or bad about these particular, about titles, whatever we want to assign to them. I think the importance is that I am in a part of my life right now where I would say, like in my 20s, I was actually I was quite vigilant. I bought my first house at the age of 23, which is not normal for a 23 year old, but I saved, I think every time I found like a dollar in my wallet that was extra. I literally went into my savings account and I did not know what I was saving for. But it just happened that we squirreled away enough for a 5% down payment. This is 20 plus years ago when you could do 5% down payments, but that led to other bigger problems, as we know. Regardless, I would say that my money script has definitely changed over the years. So I went from money vigilant. Then life happens. Right as I became a mother, as, you know, my husband had gone through has gone through, career changes as we dealt with taking care of aging parents as we dealt with loss. I think, you know, things happen in your life where you have to shift and pivot and figure out, like, how you're going to survive. And then now that my kids are older, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I am a little bit more money focused. I'm prioritizing my career because I'm an almost an empty nester, so I can really look to see what are the next 15 to 20 years going to look like for me. And I feel like I've, you know, my 30s. I suffered because of all the sacrifices we had to make. So I need to now prioritize my future self and the future of my family and the security of my family. So I am money focused in that regard. And I'm also a vigilante. So I'm trying to, you know, make sure that I'm I'm saving and I'm doing things the right way. But there was a really great discussion I had with the ladies here at the, at the front. And I think what's really important to understand is that our money script is not always ours. If you think about just how you grew up. And personally, I was born and raised in Romania, so I lived through communist times and then I lived through revolution. And then I saw my parents open a business in a country that's a cash society. So for a very long time, I came home and my dinner table was covered with cash. Like, was just cash. Just just green wasn't going on, even though it was green. Great. Whatever that was. So I have a very distorted view of money. I thought we were filthy rich, I really did, my parents never talked to me to say that money was to take care of payroll, to buy inventory, to pay vendors, to pay the lease of the building. I had no, I, you know, and I was I was in high school, but did not, did not know any of that. And I would say until, you know, I would say later, seeing them kind of deal with money, I think I saw my mom try to run a business. I think that traumatized me. And I was like, I'll never own my own business because that looks really hard. So I think that she changed that part of me. I think I work for an incredible company. But I would say that I it's it's really important to address your personal cultural beliefs because those have a huge impact. And as we know, you know, the Great Depression, you know, one of the wonderful, ladies here at the table said even millennials nowadays, they saw their parents lose their homes back in 2008, 2009. And that changed their perception of money. So they're some of them are quite super savers because they don't want to go. They don't want to experience what they prepare and their parents experience at that time. So that's why I'm saying, like when it comes to your money mindset, there's no good or bad like Britney said. But understanding what goes into it because it's it's really complicated and it's complex and be nimble and flexible. Understand that, that that's really what life's about. And you can't you can't really stay in one lane. It's okay to kind of go all over the place.
I love. That is the awareness that understanding your mindset bring. So here we're at the investor Symposium. So how is an investor. Does really understanding your mindset help you? Jen, let's go with you.
Yeah. So if you can understand where you are on the money spectrum, which mindset you, you know, are more bent toward, that's really going to help you look at what is what is your behavior? What is your belief? You know, for example, if you avoid money, you might be an investor who is ultra, ultra conservative. Maybe you avoid financial planning, but, you know, that really could be to your detriment. You know, you might be able to start financial planning and and really give yourself some peace of mind that, oh my goodness, I can do this if I just tilt or maybe tilt my portfolio a little bit more aggressively, or if I'm willing to do X, y, z a little differently. So just being mindful of, you know, what you do believe, you know what? Where you're misguided and and be able to shift, you know, money, vigilance. I touched on it. Sometimes you might not want to, you know, if you're your money vigilant out there like me, you might not want to spend on certain things. You know, there are things that you just don't value enough to spend on, right? But what do you value? You know, what are you looking into? Values. But, you know what are the things that bring you joy? Maybe you need to spend a little bit more. It's funny, when I tell clients, I think you need to spend a little bit more. They are very, very confused. I'm like, what do you mean? But, you know, sometimes you do need to spend a little bit more and really enjoy, enjoy your life and, legacy that you, you, the life that you're building and the legacy that you want to want to leave. I love the story at one point, you know, but I love the story that I heard at the table that, you know, although she's been money vigilant most of her life now, toward the end, you know, when she has grandchildren, she's spending more money on their education. And I love that as a new grandmother. That's something that I want to do, you know, so that that really inspired me. Thank you for sharing. You know, I student debt, I hated student debt. Having having to utilize that. So that's something that I want to do now that, you know, I could care less about going to Europe, but I want to make sure that my kids and my grandkids are enjoying their lives. So anyhow, find if you're you know, my point is, identify where you are in that mindset and that'll help you make some adjustments along the way.
I love that, Patrice, I'd love you to share a story about a client's story about who help them navigate around their mindset to make better decisions.
Yes, absolutely. The big when we we are a at an investor symposium. And I think a lot of times when we talk to clients, we they want to hear about their ROI, return on investment. It's amazing. But the one thing that I want to maybe emphasize, and I do this with all my clients, is we want to emphasize ROE, return on enjoyment. Because I think that is the most important thing. We all know money is at the end of the day, it's a tool. But the one I have, the wonderful pleasure and opportunity to have a great client who is. I couldn't doing this for a while now. She's very much money. Vigilante. She's done very well for herself. Worked very hard. Never really, started a family. She does have extended family. But what's very interesting is that she has created this robust, wealth and net worth. She is extremely charitably inclined. Extremely. So she's in her estate plan. Wonderful nonprofits. And money is going to go to children with cancer. She's got her extended family that's going to be taken care of. So it all sounds wonderful. But we started having conversations about her happiness right now because she has she's going to outlive her wealth. Well, oh, yeah, definitely outlive her wealth. And we looked like, how can we how can we do what can we do right now? How can you enjoy the impact, the legacy that you plan to leave to others? How can you see that right now? So she started thinking about the people in her life that would benefit right now from her legacy. And long and behold, I would say this year, since January until now, she has helped pay off. I would say about to the tune of $2.5 million worth of mortgages for the people in her life, which is incredible. She obviously can afford it, but it was it. She had this realization every single time, and she kept saying, thank you so much for making this happen. And I said, you're making it happen. And the letters she started getting from, from people. And it's it's that kind of joy that we want to see. That's the that's the return on enjoyment that you want to have to benefit yourself.
So I think that's kind of the purpose of all.
Yeah, I love hearing that so much, really that focus on values and what was important to her that really helped make the decision easier. So I think, you know, we've been talking about feelings and investments, how we feel about money, why we feel about that. But I'd love for for you in the few minutes that we have remaining, how do you go about establishing your values so that you can actually make better decisions while taking into account how you're approaching money?
Well, going back to finding that balance, finding what brings you joy, you know, and you change you that that will change over time and over the years. You know, like I said, when I was in my 20s, I valued, you know, I had children, had a home. So I valued creating a nice home for them. I valued making sure that they were in all the activities. Kind of like what you mentioned. But then your values shift over time, right? So it needs to be about what brings you joy. At the end of the day, you know, you are building this life, this one short, lovely life. And it really needs to be it needs to be worth living. Right. And so, find that what brings you joy, find the balance on how to get there. You know, if there's something you want to do, like pay off someone's mortgage, that's amazing. So do some financial planning and investing. So, you know that you can do that. But really, it's just, you know, whatever it is you're passionate about, whatever it is that's going to bring you joy, that's that's your value.
I just want to touch a little bit about on time. I think our most scarce resource that we have is time. I never think I have enough time, but then we do make time for the things that are important to us. Use money to buy yourself time. I think that's really kind of something. I was I was reading about this and I thought about it, and I thought about when my children were little and I was doing a lot of stuff that took me away from them, but I could have hired someone else to do it so that I can spend quality time with my children. So I would say I was I did not understand that. Then I can see it now. That's important. So use money to buy yourself time. And if there's one thing that, like I would say, when it comes to values and kind of going back full circle to the beginning and Brittany kind of shared this with me. So we all know what FOMO is, right?
Fear of missing out. There's one thing that you can take away from today is that I want you guys to embrace Jomo, which is joy of missing out, because what you have and what you do every day is better than what everybody else is doing.
I love that. That's a that's a great way to to end the session here. Thank you so much to the both of you for getting vulnerable on the stage. And thank you as well to everyone. Getting involved in your own conversations and attending today. So, I think lunch is next. But hope you enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you.
Disclosure: Information presented herein is for discussion and illustrative purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers are as of the date of the recording and are subject to change. These views are not intended as a recommendation to buy or sell any securities, and should not be relied on as financial, tax or legal advice. You should consult with your attorney, finance professional or accountant before implementing any transactions and/or strategies concerning your finances
