June 2024
In this episode of Couchside Conversations, Modearn™ Advisors Beau Wirick and Stacey McKinnon discuss the challenges of being influenced by those around us, and the complex nuances that may come with having a circle of affluent friends.
Here are some key takeaways from their discussion:
• Social media can breed an unhealthy level of comparison as it exposes us to a wider range of competition outside our immediate circles, including public figures/celebrities, which intensifies the pressure to conform and “keep up” more than previous social landscapes.
• Engaging with more successful individuals can be beneficial, as their habits, goals and lifestyles can influence and potentially improve your behavior.
• It is pivotal to evaluate your own intentions and ask yourself whether your actions/motives are purely for societal appearance to ensure your life is fulfilling and honest. Reflect on your friendships to see if they are meaningful or if one or both parties only values the relationship because of the status it brings.
• Try to be open about financial limitations with peers which can prevent uncomfortable situations, such as overspending in social settings. Real friends who genuinely value your friendship will understand.
Keep watching towards the end to catch our “This or That” segment where Beau and Stacey ask these rapid fire questions to each other:
• Save to buy the perfect thing or spend now to get the good enough thing?
• Bigger home or bigger savings account?
• Go on vacation but never eat out or never travel but eat out as much as you want?
• New luxury clothes or new luxury car?
• Keep up with the Joneses or find new friends?
Watch previous episodes here:
The Problem with Most Financial Advisors
Parenting Tips for Financially Savyy Kids
Hi everyone, welcome to Couchside Conversations. We're really excited about the topic today. It's Keeping Up with the Joneses, which I know a lot of us experience in our everyday life. And in preparation for this, we were doing a little research on where does this phrase come from and in 1913 it was actually a comic strip about the McGinnis family and the McGinnis family had these neighbors the Joneses and they were always trying to keep up. They wanted to have better parties, they wanted to make more money, they wanted to wear the clothes that the Joneses were wearing and this comic strip ran from 1913 all the way to 1940 which feels like it was a long time ago.
Oh it feels like it was yesterday. Except we all deal with this still today, right? And I think maybe it's even been enhanced by social media.
So would you mind just starting with sharing your thoughts on that and, you know, how do you feel like keeping up with the Joneses is showing up today?
I think the difference between now and, I guess, the pre-World War I world that 1913 was, is there's so many more Joneses. I think growing up, pre -social media, pre -Internet, you just had your neighbors, you had your colleagues, you had your friends, and that was all you had to really compare yourself to. But now you go on social media, and not only do you have everybody that you've ever met showing you their highlight reels, but then you also have, you're keeping up with the Kardashians at the same time. So like, I feel like we keep up with the Karjonesians in this era, right? And I think that puts so much stress on you.
Like you have to compare yourself to celebrities, to perfection, and then you don't see anything of reality. Like when you run into a neighbor you know what's going on in their real life but not on social media. It definitely has enhanced the pressure that I think that we all feel.
Well that's like in general what's happening with keeping up with the Joneses but would you mind just starting with sharing a story of maybe a time where you were tempted or actually did try to keep up with the Joneses?
Yeah I think 2021 was like the height of house mania. I mean, everybody and their mother was buying a house, refinancing the house, buying an Airbnb property, getting a 2 .65 % interest rate on their loans, and everybody was talking about it. And so, little old me, I was shifting to a new career and every lender that I was talking to was saying, "Sorry, we need two years of tax returns before we can give you a loan." And so, I was in the renting bucket, And this friend of mine asked me, "So, are you buying or are you renting?" And I said, "Oh, well, I can't. I have to wait until blah, blah, blah, blah." And during the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, she said, "Oh, you have to buy. My house has already gone up $400 ,000 in value," which is like, "Wah." And I realized in that moment I had to, you know, make sure that I'm on my journey, she was on her journey, and but that was a crazy time. It's so hard because actually like renting is also a good option, but in that moment you felt like if I wasn't doing what everybody else is doing, I'm less than and that's the unfortunate part I think about keeping up with the Joneses. It creates this like weird tension.
Absolutely. Yeah, so keeping up with Joneses, we just gave like a negative example of how it maybe makes us feel. But I actually think there's some times where keeping up with the Joneses can be very healthy because it leads us to make better decisions. Would you mind just sharing your perspective on that?
Yeah, I think there's a few things. One, I think choosing people in your life that you really want to be in close contact with and investing in those relationships. Sometimes you want to be around people who are simply financially better off than you and it is worth staying in their orbit, spending a little bit more time and energy and money on doing the activities that they like, 'cause at the end of the day, you're gonna become like the five people that you spend the most time with. And so choosing wisely makes sense. And then additionally, I think there's certain people in your life, specifically in work life, whose ambition and work ethic and speed of life is something that you aspire to. And I like keeping up with that Jones.
I wanna keep up with the pace of someone who's like the pacemaker in a race or the pace keeper in a race, pacemaker is a heart transplant thing. But someone who's keeping a pace, who's challenging me to run at the speed that I want to run in.
I totally agree with you. And it feels like that scenario where you look at someone and it's not I want to have what they have, it's I want to get myself in my life to the place that they're in.
I think that that can be really healthy. Yeah, I agree. So question back to you on the opposite side of that. Are there some examples that you have that are just clear, don't keep up with the Joneses, don't even try it?
Yeah, you brought up housing earlier. And I actually think that keeping up with the Joneses in terms of your home, I think that might be overrated and that might be done.
Because if you think about in 1913 when this McGinnis comic strip was out, we had house parties then. Like, everything was about bringing your friends over to your home to show them your painting and your art and your vase collections. Like, that was what it was in the early days. And so your home represented something about you. It said your status, it said your decisions, your worth, your wealth, for better or for worse, that's what happened. When's the last time you brought someone over to your home?
To show them my vase collection? It's been a while.
I just don't think we do home parties anymore, at least not from that perspective. I mean, I have people over to my home, but they're my dear friends who, like we're past the judgment phase, and now they've just accepted this as who you are, and I understand that, and I personally have chosen to have a small home for that reason, 'cause I just don't wanna maintain it. But I do think that that's one area where I would suggest everybody gut checks that, 'cause I don't think that having a big home is as valuable as it was years ago.
I agree with you, and even in my life, I would so prefer to go to somebody else's house than to spend the time and effort to host. And the best of both worlds is just meeting at a public place or a restaurant or something and getting someone to cook for you. So here's another question for you, Stacy. What are some strategies that people can employ to discern whether or not they should choose to keep up or to not keep up with the Joneses at any given time?
Yeah, this is a very good question in you and I sometimes use the phrase, like do you wanna make a deposit in your bank account or your memory bank? And I actually think that phrase or that question holds true in this circumstance.
So I think that people should be spending their money on experiences and on relationships. If you rewind a few years ago during the pandemic, we were all isolated in our home and then all of a sudden like the restrictions got lifted and we had to go have a meal with someone and we were like slightly terrified by it because we're like how are we gonna talk to someone for an hour and we had this weird feeling and then fast forward a few more years since then those relationships they're all back again and we were missing them during the pandemic they're back today but they're back because we've made concentrated efforts to put into those relationships to have experiences with people.
So I would say that if you're spending on relationships and experiences, those are really good things to spend on. I would try to avoid spending on more frivolous items or items that don't actually get you much ROI in life, whether it's monetary or not. I think of things like purse collections. I think some of these things, the outside world's not really looking at that as much as they used to as a form of whether or not they like someone.
We kind of live in a society that values vulnerability and authenticity. And so I think it's really important to note that. And while I do think some appearances matter, it's not everything that people are looking at anymore.
100 % agree. So we've talked a lot about how keeping up with the Joneses can be financial, but there's a whole other aspect of keeping up with the Joneses, which is more family related. So pressure that families, parents feel to just do all the activities with all of the other kids or to make sure that they're showing up in the same way that other families are showing up. Can you talk a little bit about that and like how to navigate those situations?
Yeah, I think there's so much pressure, especially for parents. And I think this ranges from parents of young children to retired parents of adult children who might even have grandkids.
There's so much pressure to invest wisely in your kids and your family. And I think my perspective on that is it's the airplane analogy. You want to put on your oxygen mask before putting on your loved one's oxygen mask.
And that's because if you don't bring your whole self to the table, then you're probably not being the best parent or spouse that you can be. And so, I see a lot of parents who are just, "Oh, I got to get my kid into seven different sports and they got to be in the choir and they got to be in acting and they got to blah, blah, blah, blah." And it wears them out so much that they can't actually instill values in their kids and they're spending so much money on all these activities. And then you see it with people who are older who have grown-up children that they want to give of their wealth because they tend to be wealthier than the next generation.
They want to give of their wealth to the kids and that's a decision that I think takes a lot of thought. Yeah. Do you want to spend your money right now on your kids so that you can have experience or do you want to leave them wealth when you're no longer here and have the generational wealth grow?
I don't think there's a really clear -cut answer, but what matters to me is what is your value? Is your value generational or is your value you know right now temporally what you want to experience with your family?
I totally agree and I like one of the first points you made too which is just like making sure that you take care of yourself it's just like if we don't get enough sleep if we don't drink enough water we're not that fine maybe we're hangry it's a whole issue right?
I think in the same way when it comes to just pressures that families face it's really important to make sure that you are going to show up as your best. Don't just try to do all the things, do the things you are doing really well and be present in those, and that's really important.
Yeah, we have clients who, they're spending too much money on their family, they're going to make themselves a burden to their kids someday, and we have to kind of direct them away from that. It's a tough call, it really is.
It is. One of the other uncomfortable situations I've even found myself in is when you're going to go out to dinner with friends And they pick a restaurant where you know that bill is going to be like $500 a couple, $800 a couple, sometimes $1,000 a couple, and you're just like, "Oh, I don't know if I should do it. I don't know if it fits within my financial plan. I don't know if it fits with my budget, but I don't want to say that to them, and it feels embarrassing." Have you ever had to navigate that circumstance and like, what did you do?
Yeah. Well, there's the way that I've handled the situation, and then there's the way that I advise myself to handle that situation. I think the best way to look at it is there's two different dynamics here. One is the fact that your finances are private. I think that exposing too much information about your finances when you're not comfortable is not a wise thing to do.
And at the same time, you don't want the person who's inviting you to something to feel rejected. And so how do you navigate those waters? I think the best thing to do is to channel your priorities and basically say thank you so much. Oh my gosh, that sounds so fun We're actually, you know saving our PTO up for a trip of our own. So I can't go on the trip or we're saving up some money for a new car that we're that we're looking for or something like that. Just show them that you're being intentional with your money, I think that that gives you dignity and it and it shows respect to them as well Just saying that I'm a proactive person.
And at the same time, they don't feel like you're rejecting them. You feel like they feel like that you're making a choice. So I think that works well. And I love how you highlighted the why. 'Cause if you use the words blah, blah, blah, because it helps people to know versus just the word no, and then everyone's left wondering. The other thing I sometimes do is I just offer a substitution. So if I don't think I can go to the big nice dinner,
I might say I'll cook and that often times works as well.
Oh, so you cook for people?
Sometimes.
So one last question for you.
What strategies can you offer people to help make the decision. I know that there's categories that we've talked about, but what's like the rubric that people should use on whether or not to keep up with the Joneses?
We actually were talking with a client about this and they gave us a really good tip. Anytime they're feeling a sense of, am I doing this for me or am I doing this for others? They just look at each other and they say, Joneses?
And they just gut check. And so they use the word Joneses as their code word to gut check if they're doing it according to their values or they're doing it because they feel like they are trying to keep up. And I thought that that is the simplest advice that somebody could give is just not necessarily that you have to always answer those questions perfectly or do everything that somebody else is doing.
The most important thing is that you just ask yourself the question, "Why am I doing it?" And you make the right decision from there. Motivation matters.
So one of the fun things that we do as part of Couchside Conversations is the game called This or That, where I'm gonna ask you a question, you're gonna ask me some questions, and you just have to answer it off the cuff, like just whatever comes to your mind first. Does that sound good?
Okay, so first question for you. Would you rather save to get the perfect thing or get the good enough thing.
I would rather save for the perfect thing.
You kind of touched on this. Bigger home or bigger savings account?
Oh yeah, I'm gonna go with bigger savings. I think one of the things that's hard for us, even as financial advisors, is we see a lot of people in a situation where all their money is in their home and it actually restricts them from doing some of the other things that they enjoy in life, travel, eating out, buying the things they really want And so I'm probably gonna forever more be the person who's gonna try to build up my savings for the purpose of flexibility.
Okay, so question for you. We spoke about vacations. Would you rather go on vacations and never be able to eat out when you're home? Or would you rather eat out all the time but never go on a vacation?
I can't travel and not eat. Eat out, I mean. Again, my cooking, it's not good enough. So I think at this point in my life, I'd rather eat out as much as I want and not travel.
We also might be like a DoorDash generation.
I have so many options at my fingertips all the time. So, and again, like I don't know what I would do traveling if it didn't also have a culinary element to it.
Okay, question for you. New luxury clothes or new luxury car?
Well, I don't really love luxury anything, but I'm gonna choose clothes because I actually think these decisions are about making you feel confident. And driving a special car does not make me feel like extra confident. But wearing clothes that I like or I feel like look better does produce more confidence.
And in the world we live in today, I think confidence matters. So I'm going clothes over a car. It makes sense. Like you wear your clothes all day long, your car you're in for 30 minutes a day, you know? How much real confidence does that elicit for you?
Okay, last question, would you rather keep up with the Joneses or find new friends?
Okay, this is true. I would rather find new friends. And like I said earlier, the five people that you spend the most time with, you become like. And so if you're surrounding yourself with people who make you feel bad about yourself, it's just not, I think it's toxic. I totally agree.
And I find that when you have the right friends, you're able to be present, enjoy the same things, enjoy experiences, have the vulnerable conversations around how much you can spend going out to eat, and it doesn't matter to them as much, right? So I think friends matter very much.
